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#21 erdam


    Dedicated Survivor


Posted 15 September 2013 - 03:41 AM

Ok Oufo .... 


Just tell me one thing : have u tested repair units effectiveness compared to Factories ?


Here are the results of my tests, i'm sure you will like it :D !


Approximately time to build one lvl 1 mill with :


1 Factory (40% efficiency) : 21 sec

1 Repair unit (33% efficiency) : 21 sec

1 Technician (80% efficiency) : 21 sec

1 Legendary Technician (100% efficiency) : 21 sec


5 Factories : 9 sec

5 Legendary Technicians : 9 sec



Are u agree to say now that factories = all repair units concerning mills, or it's my mistake ?


If you are not agree, give me proves plz, or things i can check on my own.



  • ReD and ImChillYeee like this

#22 Waffle(est)


    Dedicated Survivor


Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:39 AM

lets put it this way..

with factory pattern filthy beat my lumber for a very long time with just 5 repairs helping build.

with this pattern i pulled out a lead pretty soon in front of him.


ofc it's possible that i messed up some place, have yet to do a side-by-side test...

if you turn out to be right then i would have messed up big time.


also if you are concerned with the build time of repair units.

a) you can drop/delay rep factories at the perimiter because they can only help 1 mill each and are therefore have the worst ROI no matter what's at the centre.

B) dont upgrade bots that are next to an unfinished repair unit. it is important to note that power-building also works for repairs.


repair rate: time it takes to fully repair a building.

efficacy% = base_rate_time/real_rate_time
ex: repair factory would take 3x longer fully repair a building from 0hp to max than the default repair ability -> its relative efficacy is 0.3333.. or rounded 33%


the % is just used to make it more intuitive. war3 uses repair time. (i think default was 1 min)



    Private 2

Posted 17 September 2013 - 01:33 PM

Ok , I loved your ideas Erdam :)


How About Trying this ?









It would be A great idea too , if someone got the Summer Cottage Base or The Coutyard , You can get this :)

Edited by WWWWWWWWWWWW, 17 September 2013 - 01:34 PM.

#24 Waffle(est)


    Dedicated Survivor


Posted 17 September 2013 - 01:55 PM

www, allready i see some factories that could help 4 mills but onyl reach 3 cuz of your placement..


and i also see at least 5 mills that appear to not be in range of ANY mills...


i don't get what u want us to try.. it is already known to be dysfunctional..

#25 TheDwarfLard


    Praise the Sun!


Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:05 PM

I'd almost say just making a box of factories that could fit 4 mills would be more effective (less messy); going by what Erdam has on the OP, box formation usually has 7 factories per mill, giving maybe 1s higher build time than those 8] than what www has (no offence).

#26 Waffle(est)


    Dedicated Survivor


Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:39 PM

actually for the best per-mill rate you need to make 1 or 2 mills at a time.. (lest time is wasted on building the factory itself + you can fit more reps near the mill spots)

I usually stick to the 4 mill lines cuz of these 3 reasons:

  • waiting for 4 mills co be buiold allows for time to place the mills
  • ... and upgrade them..
  • you don't need to intervene every 2s
  • more breathing room means less worker idle time -> diminishes effect initial build time and slightly less repair rate.

but on contra..

filthy uses like 6 repairs total and keeps up with me quite well.

implication: time spent on making the factory matters at the start of the game.

#27 That_Girl


    Dedicated Survivor


Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:42 PM

I honestly do just 5 factorys on the left side and the right side and i still end up making more lumber then people who do it that stupid way and need to make 50 million factories. Its pretty pointless, I like to call it overkill. But lets take in fact that at the start i farm all the lower level creeps for the wood and get the first 4 bosses as soon as they spawn which gives me a huge bonus and i rush a level 2 gold mine to make 80 wood every 30 seconds or what ever it is. Does that go into account yes it does because im able to continuously upgrade my mills no matter what and i have wood left over to upgrade what ever i want.

  • Waffle(est) and Zer0o like this

#28 Waffle(est)


    Dedicated Survivor


Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:49 PM

the 5+5 patterns is actually a very good pattern..


+it takes 1/2 to 1/3 the space of other builds.. and same fraction of build time.

+it is very easy to make.

+the factories in the pattern are all extremely effective helping with 2-4 mills each. (most of the factories that make up my or eredam's build only help with 1 factory)

+you don't need be Waffle to make it :P


-a pro lumber with good micro can squeeze out a tiny bit more by end of the game using an alternate design.

    +most ppl aren't pro lumbers so if u really need read this tutorial.. then do what she said :)

#29 oufo


    Dedicated Survivor


Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:45 PM

well .. i dont think u would be able to Do anyhitng .. even build ur tiny mills if u have 2-1 mill building setup.. Lumber + pause time between each build will be verymuch if u are not 100% Concentrating on doing that ... 


with 4 mill building setup if u play it right u will get the most wood by game end .. Guaranteed .. if u just spam level 5 mills .. dont make level 6s. 

#30 That_Girl


    Dedicated Survivor


Posted 17 September 2013 - 04:02 PM

Oufo not true TheFilthyRat always plays small bases and always does 1-3 mills at a time and still ends up having more wood then me early game (Before he dies, Then suddenly leaves before saying a word) but that's his way of doing it and it works for him. Everybody has their own way.

#31 TheDwarfLard


    Praise the Sun!


Posted 17 September 2013 - 04:22 PM

I think most people do 2+ mills per transmute; I've tried one mill at a time before, and let's just say I could hardly do anything besides building and placing mills (Filthy even noticed how much I was struggling to keep up with walls and stuff).

#32 That_Girl


    Dedicated Survivor


Posted 17 September 2013 - 05:13 PM

This is how i lumber and survive and just the way i play.

Attached Files

#33 oufo


    Dedicated Survivor


Posted 17 September 2013 - 05:30 PM

@that_Girl .. Check my replay on my signature and u will see that with my 4 mill setup i think i had most wood produced during a game while soloing. till trojan. 

Also having a head start in wood production doesn't mean u get most wood produced during the game .. i normally finish building my setup at 49:30 .. so basically he would have less than 2 minutes of head start ... anyway .. the main keyfactor in geting most wood in game .. i would say Number of mills produced during game .. i can easily have 400 mills produced during the game. problem would be the space to fit them .. gonna try to solo in a big base and see how it goes .. maybe u are gonna get a new replay soon .


anyway .. we can do a side by side solo .. and see how it goes .. 

Edited by oufo, 17 September 2013 - 05:43 PM.

#34 Waffle(est)


    Dedicated Survivor


Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:21 PM

some notes..

  • you say u had "most wood." that has no meaning. you had how much wood at which point?
  • there is such a thing as inflation.. at the beginning 10w is massive amount.. 10 min later 100w is massive.. and game everybody spams 3k items. having lumber earlier can be life-saving at times.
  • there are different strategies for different micro skills, base sizes, solo/team etc.. there is no "best" overall strat.. only ones that are "best" in some very specific setting. (me and eredam focus on total production, filthy rushes to buy larceny so he can kill stealer, others have different needs..)

#35 oufo


    Dedicated Survivor


Posted 17 September 2013 - 08:04 PM

lets see the person who can achieve the highest amount of wood production alone by the time the trojan comes and with which setup .. i am gonna try 10-20 games .. make a table of sorts .. "Wood when trojan comes" "number of mills" ,, kewl "?

Will also save the replays of each .. and when i find the best one will upload the replay..


Lets make it some sort of contest .. 

Each person can use whatever setup in whichever base .. but has to provide the highest wood production "on score board belonging to his name" to win .. Kewl ? 

Also maybe we can Agree on a difficulty .. 


and maybe do 2 boards .. Solo / DB 


Edited by oufo, 17 September 2013 - 08:47 PM.

#36 Krehara


    Dedicated Survivor


Posted 17 September 2013 - 11:57 PM

The problem with having a contest where people compete to make a table listing their lumber production is that it would be easy to mess with the numbers. The only way to ensure that every entry on a table is true would be to upload a replay for each one.... considering that it looks like there are 4 people debating on this, that would be at least 40 replays. Others who have observed the conversation (like myself) may also jump in to see how they do. Even if someone were to watch the replays at x8 speed, it would take a fairly long time to finish, and x8 speed would be too fast to see if a player abused any glitches. Also, there's no way of knowing if someone played 100 games and just listed their best results. 

#37 oufo


    Dedicated Survivor


Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:32 AM

as far as i know there are no bugs that would affect the lumber work .. "appearing the Scoreboard " ..

U can use a replayseeker to Speed up the process of watching the replay .. if u know that trojan comes on min 57 for example .. u can start watching the replay from min 55 using the replay seeker .. u just need a good pc .


i mean it's doable  .. u would only need the replay for ur best wood supply ..

Edited by oufo, 18 September 2013 - 05:33 AM.

#38 oufo


    Dedicated Survivor


Posted 18 September 2013 - 07:20 AM

here i got this in my 1st trial .. 146k wood at the time of the trojan. i was Double Basing.




Mode was








Attached File  146k.gif   355.47KB   0 downloads

#39 That_Girl


    Dedicated Survivor


Posted 18 September 2013 - 08:58 AM

Oufo you did it your way and you made 120580 total wood when Bohemoth died. While using no walls just Commander and also using the level 6 transmute bug (its not that bad) and using the 50 million factory's setup. (The replay in his forum signature this is based off)


I did it my way and made 114676 by the time Behemoth died, While using walls without getting any level 6's and only using 10 factory's, 5 on the right side 5 on the left side.


My point is you don't need some crazy lumbering strategy to win, You also don't need the OP'st hero to win. Platinum walls are enough.

And the goal of the game isn't to get most wood its to survive, So if you make enough would that allows you to win im pretty sure that's enough.



#40 oufo


    Dedicated Survivor


Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:07 AM

oki :) .... Dokie to win nightmare u need less than 9k wood :) so it isnt about geting wood actually :) 

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