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Make Easier modes easier.


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#1 Bigheaded

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:47 PM

This suggestion WILL be a pain in the ass and i'm not expecting it soon but: MAKE NORMAL MODE EASIER!
i would honestly expect me with mithril walls, wizards and almost maxed (didnt notice new last upgrade) repair bots/units to win on a 1 exit base solo on normal difficulty. I made 40 minutes but wow, things sure have gotten a LOT harder.

Bear in mind 90% of the people are NOT on the forum, it's hard to say where to rebalance. Personally i think it needs to be more on the lines of:
Easy: 75% dmg/hp
Normal: 0% (roughly 25% weaker than what it currently is!!)
Mad: 25% (as hard as normal currently is.)
Impossible: 50% (have yet to play with others so cannot say, certainly wont be attempting in public games, or game will be ruined, no-one will survive.)
harder than impossible: 75-100% (?????)

Why do i suggest making "normal" easier rather than just play easy? because most people would "expect" to beat normal eventually solo. I suspect i will, but i abuse making lumber mills very quickly, most public players won't and i think to do it solo, you'll need that or "near perfect play" which is asking too much!.

This is some form of warning, we can lose public interest if the game becomes too hard. We want to encourage people to come to the forums, if they have trouble with "mad" they will more likely come rather than losing to "normal" (psychological reasoning, i HATE losing to a "normal" mode but i can watch how others beat mad or impossibly solo and copy (i.e englocked abusing swordsman versus air was an eye opener on one version)).

Rebalancing SUCKS. I know that, but i think it's needed.
Either that or i'm missing something imba which i should be doing and currently am not. After seeing 5 games of pubs die within 15 minutes of invis + normal mode, i think not though. Some were fairly good with somewhat decent builds. They shouldnt have lost that early.

Will keep more replays so i can show.


What are other players thoughts?
Should normal be easier? do you even play normal mode?
I know some people are calling for harder, but are you even playing the easier modes? If you can beat impossible then yes normal SHOULD be easy to you. How about this then as a challenge, try LUMBERING someone else in a public game.

Finish 6.00 off so that it's complete before working on this though, as it requires a full rebalance which is going to take longer than it sounds.

Edited by Bigheaded, 10 February 2013 - 06:50 PM.


#2 Niwa

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:55 PM

Well, to gain some player views, I gave this version a couple tries on Easy, Normal, and Mad.

I observed:
Easy mode was boring for experienced players, but easily murdered all newbies.
Normal mode was very intense. In our game no one made it to the end.
Mad mode just annihilated a fullhouse within 30 minutes. All 10 players died.

As for why Beta8 is so hard compared to Beta5 (Beta8 is the version with new terrain and Tinker hero), there are 3 reasons that come to mind.

1. Creeps can pack together 15% closer than previous version. This means more creeps can attack your walls now.
2. Building time for Lumber Mill/Command Center/Towers increased.
3. Main Repair Structure repair range got a massive nerf (less repair-wall ratio).

So, Easy, Normal and Mad will be easier in 6.00 release.






#3 englocked

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:16 AM

QUOTE (Niwa @ Feb 10 2013, 08:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
1. Creeps can pack together 15% closer than previous version. This means more creeps can attack your walls now.

This is clearly the main reason why it is so much harder now.

On a side note, I think bookshelves definitely needs a nerf. Massing them is way too effective (in comparison to getting towers), not only does it provides a lot of expensive tomes but you can also sell the books and get extra lumber income.

I'm beating nightmare with ease using this strategy (I only need 1 level 6 lumbermill + selling books and I have enough income to build last walls/engineers/statue when trojan spawns). I can hardly beat impossible using towers.

Edited by englocked, 11 February 2013 - 08:17 AM.


#4 Bigheaded

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:34 PM

QUOTE (englocked @ Feb 11 2013, 01:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is clearly the main reason why it is so much harder now.

On a side note, I think bookshelves definitely needs a nerf. Massing them is way too effective (in comparison to getting towers), not only does it provides a lot of expensive tomes but you can also sell the books and get extra lumber income.

I'm beating nightmare with ease using this strategy (I only need 1 level 6 lumbermill + selling books and I have enough income to build last walls/engineers/statue when trojan spawns). I can hardly beat impossible using towers.


decided to give this a test and indeed wow. just solo'd the 2 last bosses by just bashing them to death with tinker lol. I didnt even bother with walls at 15 mins left. made him grab tomes in quiet spots, got to 900 pretty easily (got to ~200ish i think from playing "normally" using a decentish production and making em small)

was only mad, but i had problems with normal (i didnt upgrade nuke enough on the game i lost, that can be OP also)

#5 AcediaPH

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 03:05 AM

Uhmmm, make harder modes? :D



#6 Jem

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 04:24 AM

Uhmmm, make harder modes? :D

They are already thinking about this.



#7 AcediaPH

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 04:49 AM

Thats quite nice to hear :D. I am born for harder modes :P.



#8 Jem

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 04:52 AM

Same.



#9 AcediaPH

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 05:36 AM

No you're wrong rarigate.. Ur born for vampirism speed :D. LOOOL






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