21 replies to this topic

[Bigheaded]

I was actually called a noob in a pub for getting a gold mine which was quite interesting.
In the end i had to agree with the guy though, that gold mines were "nearly" useless. I could attempt to proove it mathematically but i'm too lazy and going off soon.


But the basic is this, massing lvl 4 lumbers + gold mines is not as good as massing level 4 lumbers and getting a few vendors and purchasing gold.
It also means you can have gold when you want it, instead of win gold mines manage to produce it.

The only disadvantage i see is that vendors take up more room. Not much of a disadvantage.


I believe some thinking is required on this one.

[cromartie]

Maybe , by adding level 2 goldmines with a faster rate of generation would solve the problem.

[Revol]

ive been thinking that too. half the time when i do gold income to cover / let me afk more (since my builder has no inventory) i allways end up behind where i would be with a mill instead. cause 1 every 4 vs 1 every 120 is 120/4 = 30 wood in time for one wood. so it is better but generaly not much cause your either short, early on and end up buying anyways, or have way to much at end

[Bigheaded]

nevo/niwa take a look?

A possible option is to be able to switch between a gold mine and lumber mill.

[Revol]

or im thinking a single gold mine at 1 to 4 rate for 300 wood but can only have one per player maybe. remove the 1 every 120 mines

[Niwa]

I never realized that . I always upgraded all the way to gold mines and rarely buy them. I'll be right back with some stats on them.
Here they are:

Short Version
Profit begins after 9.5 minutes when upgrading to gold mine.
Profit after 9.5 minutes: 10 lumber per minute

If we change to 300 lumber cost and make it train 1 gold per 20 seconds.
Profit begins after 2 minutes 20 seconds when upgrading to gold mine.
Profit after 2 minutes 20 seconds: 135 lumber per minute (as opposed to buying gold, but when selling gold your profit is 75 lumber per minute)

My opinion on this: I think we should make them 150 lumber cost and train 1 gold per 40 seconds since 300 is a bit high.

Long Version
Lumber Mill 4 Stats:
1 lumber in 4 seconds
15 lumber in 60 seconds
30 lumber in 120 seconds

Gold Mine 1 Stats:
1 gold in 120 seconds
50 lumber for 1 gold

Loss of possible lumber income upon buying gold as opposed to using gold mine: 50-30 = 20 lumber

Gold Mine cost: 80 lumber
Gold mine upgrade time: 60 seconds

80 lumber + 60 seconds = 80 lumber + 15 lumber = 95 lumber deficit after upgrading to gold mine

Time it takes to make up for loss of 95 lumber: 20 lumber advantage per 2 minutes = 10 lumber advantage per minute using gold mine as opposed to lumber mill level 4
95 lumber / 10 lumber = 9.5 minutes or 570 seconds before profit begins.

Profit rate after 9.5 minutes: 10 lumber per minute
You know what this means? You have absolutely no profit if you upgrade to gold mine when there is less than 10 minutes until trojan spawn.

Yes it's not even worth it. We'll have to change that. Tiny "profit" if there is any.


If we make it cost 300 lumber and train 1:20 rate then it is 6x faster, which beats the 300 lumber + 1 minute upgrade time (320 lumber total) deficit in (320/135) minutes = 2 minutes 20 seconds.

After that 2 minutes 20 seconds:
Lvl 4 lumber mill: 5 lumber in 20 seconds
Lvl 1 gold mine: 1 gold in 20 seconds = 50 lumber
Profit: 45 lumber per 20 seconds, 135 lumber per minute (as opposed to buying gold for 50 lumber each).
True Profit (If you sell the gold for lumber): In 5.10: 1 gold = 30 lumber. 25 lumber profit per 20 seconds = 75 lumber profit per minute as opposed to level 4 mill.

What do you guys think?

[Revol]

-grins at math- gotta love it lol. and seems like you balanced it well. my idea was for a limit of gold mines per player lol but this seems like it would be alot mroe balanced for the game and incomers. cause having to get gold mines early if timed wrong has 100%chance to break a base lol

[Bigheaded]

The other thing which was pointed out, is the cost of getting to gold mine.

It costs not just "80 wood" for a gold mine, it costs 80 wood and a level 4 lumber mill. A level 4 lumber mill consisting of roughly 30 secs to build (less for most people due to repair factory speedbuild), roughly 1.5 mins of upgrade time and 55 wood.
so your maths is all flawed because you didn't actually take that into account, unless a gold mine is a "new" building (which in your maths it isnt).

I'd put my vote on gold mine being a new building costing 150 wood and producing 1 gold every ~60 secs. I.E it has nothing to do with the lumber mill except that it costs wood.

[Niwa]

The other thing which was pointed out, is the cost of getting to gold mine.

It costs not just "80 wood" for a gold mine, it costs 80 wood and a level 4 lumber mill. A level 4 lumber mill consisting of roughly 30 secs to build (less for most people due to repair factory speedbuild), roughly 1.5 mins of upgrade time and 55 wood.
so your maths is all flawed because you didn't actually take that into account, unless a gold mine is a "new" building (which in your maths it isnt).

I'd put my vote on gold mine being a new building costing 150 wood and producing 1 gold every ~60 secs. I.E it has nothing to do with the lumber mill except that it costs wood.

We can't take into account the costs and time to reach lumber mill 4 because we are specifically comparing whether or not upgrading from lumber mill 4 to gold mine is worth it or not. The only thing you can add to the calculations related to reaching level 4 lumber mill is if you upgraded the mills before they began profiting (it costs lumber and time to upgrade which puts you in deficit for an amount of time before you begin really profiting from the upgrade). You are in deficit if you upgraded before a mill starts profiting. If we wanted to include that, they will just be added to the total deficit, which would make a very minor impact but I did not include it because it leads to variables (exactly when did you upgrade each mill?).

But again it doesn't matter either way because our 1 intention was to see if it was worth it to upgrade from level 4 lumber mill to gold mine or not. This means that we already have a level 4 lumber mill and a gold mine to start. The comparison was made like this: at one point in time a player has both 1 level 4 lumber mill and 1 gold mine. Does the gold mine profit more than the lumber mill including the costs and time it took to upgrade lumber mill?

We found out that a gold mine produces "lumber" faster at a 10 lumber per minute rate. However, it takes 80 lumber and 60 seconds to reach gold mine. This is 80 + 15 = 95 lumber to make up (deficit). So after 9.5 minutes, it makes you 10 lumber per minute more than lumber mill 4.

Did I fail explaining that? Probably, but I'm just saying you can't take that stuff into account because of certain reasons I can't explain very well.

[Ve1ro]

So i was saying earlier (it looks like u were too) it might just be easier if vendors were made the main source of gold. increases the importance of the vendors and maybe would wake people up to the cool items u got available now. just add an expensive final lumber upgrade and decrease the cooldown of gold in the vendor?

I understood btw lol^^

Edited by Ve1ro, 21 May 2012 - 11:32 PM.

[Niwa]

So i was saying earlier (it looks like u were too) it might just be easier if vendors were made the main source of gold. increases the importance of the vendors and maybe would wake people up to the cool items u got available now. just add an expensive final lumber upgrade and decrease the cooldown of gold in the vendor?

I understood btw lol^^

ok done.

[AcediaPH]

Nice mathematics . Great idea +1

Edited by Kiss4deadz, 23 May 2013 - 10:16 PM.

[ReD]

Oh Math 

[AcediaPH]

ReD you good at math?

[Jem]

ReD you good at math?

I think no, he always say "math" when there is math.

[AcediaPH]

Hahaha . You're rude to ReD xD.. How about you rarigate? Are you good at math?

[ReD]

Hahaha . You're rude to ReD xD.. How about you rarigate? Are you good at math?

ULTIMATE NO 

rarigate don't know have to count xD

[AcediaPH]

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT! XD. Gaming helped me in many subjects like math . I've learned how to count how many marines I created and how long can I survive in one game of fsa xD

[ReD]

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT! XD. Gaming helped me in many subjects like math . I've learned how to count how many marines I created and how long can I survive in one game of fsa xD

hahaaha

[AcediaPH]

Uhmm, This fight is rated PG. Not for kids under age 13