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Do you think tinker is overpower or underpower? [Poll]


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Poll: Do you think tinker is overpower or underpower? [Poll] (12 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you think tinker is overpower or underpower?

  1. Yes, I think tinker is overpower (2 votes [16.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

  2. No, I think tinker is underpower. (2 votes [16.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

  3. In my opinion, it's in between overpower and underpower or just average (3 votes [25.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

  4. No, I think you're crazy! (1 votes [8.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.33%

  5. Yolo option. (4 votes [33.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

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#1 Letbell

Letbell

    Private


Posted 15 June 2014 - 07:46 PM

I've been playing Fortress Survival for a few month in version 4.62,3,4. I think in the current version 6.44 that tinker is way overpower through his building mechanic. It's like you're having a second builder in your base and doing two things at the same time.

 

People may think that tinker is underpower because they don't know how to macro well in Fortress Survival.

People may think that tinker is underpower because he just a support hero.

People may think that tinker is just a garbage hero out of every hero.

 

So, what do you think about tinker? Overall, I think he's overpower in everything; hero damage, build mechanic, and support. Recently, I almost soloed solo nightmare through using tinker's mechanic, but got rekt by worm's babies =c [big mistakes] [both air and invis]

 

 

 


Edited by Letbell, 15 June 2014 - 09:10 PM.


#2 TheDwarfLard

TheDwarfLard

    Praise the Sun!



                   

Posted 15 June 2014 - 08:41 PM

What still needs to be considered is that hero damage is really only good for bosses (bonus damage against boss armour and normal or less damage to other armour types [pretty sure it's less than 100% though]).

 

By using Tinker, you lose out on Alchemist hero with a more dependable transmute, alchemist mercenary is really only effective in large bases (building only a few lumber mills at a time then transmuting isn't the best idea).

 

And lastly that towers are more for larger bases; in smaller bases, if you wish to have a high WPS, you can't really fit towers in that well and only having a few won't do much. In large bases, towers can put out a good amount of damage.

 

 

Now I can't really be sure whether Tinker is OP or not (he wasn't that good before in either case), as I haven't used him, but from the little I've seen, he didn't seem to be incredibly OP (I haven't seen that many games, though).



#3 Letbell

Letbell

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 09:01 PM

It's truth that using tinker can lost the competition against WPS incomes, but the thing came to my thought that was even though I had High WPS" but I do not have enough time to set up towers for larger bases, but as for small base it's wasn't required.

 

7 out of 10 of my games, I've seen alot of people using Tinker, and their macro is beyond my abilities. Building and timing is virtual important in this game if individual choose themselves a larger base, but for small base it became quite opposite.

 

Another important fact that I havn't given out is that when you build unfinished building, Tinker can take over the job quite easily, but infact tinker can only build towers and wall. If he is able to build other support building, it is quire too overpower for those who can macro in this game in larger base.

 

To be honest, having a huge amount of WPS is also a bad idea.

 

High WPS = not enough time to build/upgrade towers.

Medium WPS [3hpers] = fully times to build/upgrades towers, and not to mention that Towers are literally [OP] in version 4.44

Rocking towers = 10 of them is enough to infinity stun the boss

Assassin towers = 5-9 can literally have enough damage hero with 6 cursed larency

Peasant tower = 5 of them can literally rekt worm's babies [out damage 5 rainbow staff before he spawn, even though rainbow staff is useful in endless waves. [Siege vs Magic, usually magic wins, but the attack speed from +18 upgrades for towers can counterpart that concept.]



#4 TheFilthyRat

TheFilthyRat

    Dedicated Survivor



             

Posted 15 June 2014 - 09:09 PM

High WPS is not a bad idea because you aren't taking into consideration that towers are not needed. If you have high WPS then you can ignore towers and power up your hero with elemental blasting staff and cursed larceny.

 

5-9 assassin towers IS not equal to 6 cursed larceny... It's not even equal to 1 in my opinion.

 

Also for someone to take full advantage of tinkers building mechanic they have to pick a big base for a good tower setup and as dwarf said they are forced to take a claimed alchemist which means lower WPS.

 

Also I agree that tinker should not be able to finish building uncompleted buildings such as vendor/shelves or other support buildings. maybe that can be fixed in the future



#5 Letbell

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 09:19 PM

oops a typo at 5-9 assassin towers >.> Supposely somewhere around 15-19, becuz most of my game I had that large amount of AA.

 

I kinda agreed with you Dedicated Survivor, but some towers are benefit to prolong the game in endless, especially rocking towers, they can sometimes at least prevent those huge siege damage golem just for 1.5 seconds



#6 TheFilthyRat

TheFilthyRat

    Dedicated Survivor



             

Posted 15 June 2014 - 09:22 PM

Towers are definitely not OP in endless waves, I'm sure that the artillery and air would kill them very quickly. Also it would take a big base and almost all of your tower room to have 15-19 assassin towers in range, hardly leaving room for any other towers.

 

Also it's not hard to macro with tinker while towering and lumbering. All you have to do is Shift build your towers with tinker. Does anyone else have any thoughts about tinkers build menu possibly being over powered? Would like to hear more about this



#7 Krehara

Krehara

    Dedicated Survivor




             

Posted 15 June 2014 - 09:24 PM

In the past, the tinker held almost no value. The cooldown on his Cogs of Time was so long that it wasn't worth using and his tank form was so weak that it was almost worthless even on Very Easy difficulty. His damage type was magic, meaning that he couldn't damage the final bosses. He couldn't even stand up to air bosses coming into his base, and if he was in tank form, he couldn't even attack them. 

 

So, we decided to make him a little better. We reduced the cooldown of his Cogs of Time so that it's actually worth having, his damage type has been changed to hero so that he can attack final bosses, and he has been given a single build menu. In comparison to his old self, he may seem overpowered, but the truth is that he's actually just a viable option with advantages and drawbacks now... like every other hero. 

 

The build menu that you are concerned with provides one real bonus; it's now possible to set up your base much faster than ever before. This makes starting out much easier, and lets your builder focus on gathering resources and building utility buildings. Most people in die early in nightmare mode for two reasons. One, the lack of offense clearing mobs off of their walls, or two, a lack of resources to keep their defenses and offenses upgraded. The tinker's build menu allows these two things to be balanced a little more easily. The downside to this ability is that you need to have decent towering knowledge to implement it properly, and you MUST use a large base in order to benefit from it.

 

As far as damage goes, he's actually one of the least effective heroes. Even though he can damage the final bosses now, his damage is easily outdone by the shadow sniper, commander, rocketeer, marine, and astronomer throughout the entire game. Intellect heroes DO gain stats faster than other heroes, but that only results in a higher base damage. Without skills to complement the base damage, the tinker is easily outclassed by the other heroes.

 

His support ability, Reconstruction, is an excellent way to help support your walls... but, while using it, he cannot attack. This isn't an issue if you have upgraded towers and tower mechanics researched, but this ability alone isn't enough to keep your walls alive whenever a strong boss comes in and your towers are not up to the task of killing it. 

 

Finally, his tank form. It has not been changed since the last version. Using it runs the very high risk of losing your hero. In the first half of the game, he might be able to hold out for a bit... but you would be wasting time that could be spent on building towers. In the second half, it's almost suicide to use him in melee. And he still can't attack air with it, which leaves him in his much more vulnerable ranged form to fend off air attacks. Other heroes are still better suited to actual combat than the tinker. 

 

In short, it all boils down to one thing; he's better at helping you build a base, and that's pretty much it. In my opinion, he isn't broken, but he is reviving a play style that hasn't been around for a while... actually towering. He has his own advantages and disadvantages, like every other hero, but his strategy centers around creating a solid base instead of a superhero. 

 

 

 

Another important fact that I havn't given out is that when you build unfinished building, Tinker can take over the job quite easily, but infact tinker can only build towers and wall. 

 

To be honest, having a huge amount of WPS is also a bad idea.

 

Rocking towers = 10 of them is enough to infinity stun the boss

Assassin towers = 5-9 can literally have enough damage hero with 6 cursed larency

 

The three things I'd like to discuss from your last post. The first one, starting a building and letting him take over... it's not very efficient. It would be far more beneficial to just powerbuild with repairs, the way people do now, or use the tinkers Cogs of Time ability on the builder. 

 

And having a high amount of WPS isn't necessarily a bad thing. Having a high WPS allows you to get all of the upgrades you need AND buy some nice goodies for your hero. Usually when a player aims for high WPS, they plan on using their hero for damage in the end game, which runs the risk of them dying early in the game. 

 

I'm somewhat disappointed that you didn't mention flame towers (perhaps the most damaging single target tower. And they turn into dragons. How can you not like dragons?!) As far as Earth towers go, they have always been pretty powerful. But the part about 9 Assassin towers being equivalent to a hero with 6 CL is something I strongly disagree with. They ARE useful now, but they are nowhere near powerful enough to compare to a hero with 6 CL. With 6 CL, even the alchemist and the tinker become very powerful. 



#8 TheFilthyRat

TheFilthyRat

    Dedicated Survivor



             

Posted 15 June 2014 - 09:28 PM

Another thing to consider is that people who use tinker as a hero and tower for themselves are probably going to be getting less kills from their elemental stones because towers are going to be getting a good chunk of kills over tinker.  But yeah, choosing tinker actually gives people a way to solo and still have a good balance of lumber and towers.



#9 TheDwarfLard

TheDwarfLard

    Praise the Sun!



                   

Posted 15 June 2014 - 10:58 PM

Another thing to consider is that people who use tinker as a hero and tower for themselves are probably going to be getting less kills from their elemental stones because towers are going to be getting a good chunk of kills over tinker.  But yeah, choosing tinker actually gives people a way to solo and still have a good balance of lumber and towers.

Kills from towers and other units still get you stats (provided hero has elemental stone on them). The rocketeers I get most of my early kills and I still get stats.



#10 That_Girl

That_Girl

    Dedicated Survivor


     

Posted 16 June 2014 - 02:00 AM

You can make the Tinker become Invuln like the using 2 Wings bug. Just sayin.


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#11 Waffle(est)

Waffle(est)

    Dedicated Survivor




   

Posted 16 June 2014 - 04:57 PM

tower kills count for elem stone. all kills made by the player matter. see FAQ^...



#12 oufo

oufo

    Dedicated Survivor



     

Posted 16 June 2014 - 10:38 PM

Doesnt matter how many towers u get .. cuz in the end .. Wood wins the game .. sure with tinker u can solidify ur base early on .. but without wood it will crumble really fast.



#13 Supperman

Supperman

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:46 PM

If the Tinker could build lumber mills he would be over powered.



#14 Waffle(est)

Waffle(est)

    Dedicated Survivor




   

Posted 04 July 2014 - 01:35 PM

kind of sucks that you HAVE to be able to minify mills like from the very start..

that makes alch hero so OP even tho all his other abilities suck...






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